Welcome to the FTS Forum - Read the introduction here

Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed
Topic Rating: +11 Topic Rating: +11 (11 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Full time trading HELP!
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
March 7, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
November 4, 2019 - 4:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
+1
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Hello all fellow traders!

Cards on the table I feel I need some help, and I think we all know this can be a lonely game at times so hoping the community here might bring some answers or pointers.

I’m not making any money since committing myself to this Full time in Aug this year. So why am I not in the green yet? Well I don’t quite know. My discipline is where I think it needs to be I stick rigidly to what selections are put in front of me, nothing else. So you know I don’t expect to win all the time, I don’t think this is an easy job. I now hate the Betfair screen. It’s a boring thing to sit and do all day but I also know if you see where the market is going to move you can make a lot of money, after all it’s why we are all here.

This is what I’m doing

Trading group. Not worried about this, it is out of my direct control and I know long term this is as good and safe as it gets. Nothing to see here.

Ultimate. I have 5 systems in this again work at them Tuesday and Friday take what it throws up and over all this is all good.

FDD……and so it begins. This is in my control and is an amazing tool but I just feel I could be getting more from it. I feel like I have a Ferarri and can’t drive the thing! I have been using it to find goals. Thing is I can’t find them Embarassed It has lost me more than a few pounds. I need to find an angle or edge for second half goals as I feel this is where I can sit and trade things out. Any help here would be much appreciated!! I do feel one of the problems is not having all the back data to find the right edge. I have bought some extra data but on top of losing money and being part of all of these services it hurts financially, if you are unsure of what it is you are looking for and don’t even know how to find it. See told you I was lost.

RTS Just sacked me in the first month. I know, I know you need to stick with it but I don’t understand horses and know I have just taken too much on so won’t be continuing with that going forward. Not because it’s not good, but because I don’t understand it and with the mess I’m in just now feel it’s far too much at one time. I will return to it one day.

I have a good bank. I’m managing it as per FTS advice and that’s great and really helps, only thing is it’s now more than 20% down. With a very pregnant wife (who is brilliant and very understanding so far) and all the usual bills etc, I’m starting to doubt myself and I don’t think thats a good thing when trading. I want to learn. I know this can be done, I used to work next to Traders at a very large UK bookmakers and seen how much they made on the side by Betfair trading so know I can do this. Any advice, any help, any pointers (not the samaritans) would be great and much appreciated.

As Kermit says “it’s not easy being green”

Cheers Dylan Confused

The following users say thank you to Baldwinsdad for this useful post:

bettyblogger, Steve
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 10
Member Since:
February 13, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
November 4, 2019 - 5:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Maybe concentrate on just one particular strategy and one that you know you feel comfortable with, if you trade U2.5 goal markets are you comfortable that if an early goal goes against you, youre in the red immediately, but yet on the opposite side and if you trade O2.5 you are in the red until and if a goal is scored. Maybe just paper trade a few systems just to look at different markets until you feel confident of trading again, 

The following users say thank you to wils2004 for this useful post:

Baldwinsdad
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
October 23, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
November 4, 2019 - 5:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
+4
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Firstly well done for asking for help, it’s not easy to do when we have to swallow our pride. It is a very lonely place at times as you say. I somehow managed to be -10 yesterday, probably my worst single day for a year but it happens at times.

From what I have read, it “looks” like you have committed to being full time prematurely. I wouldn’t recommend anyone does this as a job/their income unless they were profitable consistently for 2-3 years AND able to demonstrate they can grow a bank with discipline using the same process day in day out. I’m not saying at all that’s your situation but that is what I would have recommended had someone asked me.

If you aren’t sure about FDD/Horses etc then they 100% shouldn’t be anywhere near your bread and butter stuff you need to use to make your income, they should be separate projects with their own bank.

FDD for me is a bit of a nightmare, I worked on 4-5 ideas for 2 years and they nearly all regressed back to nil edge. Its disheartening but I do have 2 FDD methods that are working at the moment and have for 6-12 months. If you are classic data mining it will be a struggle.

I’m not sure watching what other traders used to do in your old job is much of a benchmark for what you can achieve as we all work differently and it’s not as easy as just sitting and trading day in day out making constant money.

Is there a specific reason you’ve flatlined since August, is it previously profitable methods gone downhill or did you start in August with ideas you’d worked on but not actually bet/traded live for 12-24 months solidly?

Sorry bit of a blurt there but lots of questions/info we probably need to know more about. I’m sure others will have some useful info for you too.

The following users say thank you to Lord Dio for this useful post:

Baldwinsdad, bettyblogger, becker
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
October 23, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
November 4, 2019 - 5:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

wils2004 said
Maybe concentrate on just one particular strategy and one that you know you feel comfortable with, if you trade U2.5 goal markets are you comfortable that if an early goal goes against you, youre in the red immediately, but yet on the opposite side and if you trade O2.5 you are in the red until and if a goal is scored. Maybe just paper trade a few systems just to look at different markets until you feel confident of trading again, 

  

Good idea in theory but this is his job now he said and he doesn’t have 6-12 months to learn new stuff from scratch (I assume!)

Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
October 23, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
November 4, 2019 - 6:09 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Are you the guy on Twitter with the Chihuahua picture?

Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
March 7, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
November 4, 2019 - 6:32 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

WOW guys thank you.

Yeah don’t have 6-12 months to try stuff out as you say LordD baby is due Feb 6th time is a ticking as they say!  I’m with Ian’s trading group and thats my foundation, it’s also my apprenticeship as I see it. This is also where my full time commitment came from. I trust Ian 100% and know this will be a long and hard road but if I can learn from anybody it’s him. I run another bank for this but it is part of my overall bank.

Funny you should mention U2.5 wills I’m looking at U3.5 (extra safety) lump on at the start and trading out for 20 to 30% after all needs to be 4 goals before you lose. I have no intention of giving up, I’m committed (or maybe should be committed) to see this out. I don’t mind the time in front of the PC, I don’t mind the boredom, I don’t even mind the lone wolf bit of trading but I do mind when it’s a big hit right off the bat and it has shaken my confidence. I have systems that look amazing on FDD but as has been said this is purely Data Mining and use to man nor beast.

I finished Aug +10% which is great. Now I’m at the start of Nov -20% I know it’s hard and we will have ups and downs but when your confidence goes it’s hard to step back and see the bigger picture some times. 

Anyways sorry to prattle on, and thanks again for the comments and taking the time to help. Much appreciated and look forward to anything that might come out of this.

Cheers Dylan Smile

Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
March 7, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
November 4, 2019 - 6:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Yes Lord D thats me. The pic has now changed to Kermit as I’m now all about being GREEN. Positive mind set and all that Laugh

The following users say thank you to Baldwinsdad for this useful post:

Lord Dio
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 36
Member Since:
October 23, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
November 4, 2019 - 6:39 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

All I can really do mate is wish you luck and happy to help, maybe DM on Twitter etc BUT you’ve jumped into this way too soon.

Just joining FTS is 100% not a foundation to go full time. This genuinely is one of the hardest jobs in the world. I started my journey about 7-8 years ago and I am still learning now. I also have another couple of side incomes and I still feel enormous pressure to succeed and I haven’t had a job for nearly 3 years. During my first few years I lost tens of thousands learning the ropes, albeit I didn’t have FTS as a resource. You have to serve an apprenticeship and it takes alot of time. 

For the sake of your family, future and more importantly your bank, if it was me I’d definitely go back to work. Not to be harsh just that the reality is you are on a steep learning curve and you could easily lose your bank at some stage, whether you intend to or not, I have blown three 5 figure banks over the years. 

That is just my advice if I were in your shoes.

The following users say thank you to Lord Dio for this useful post:

Baldwinsdad, Steve
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 5
Member Since:
March 7, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
November 4, 2019 - 7:22 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Appreciate that Lord D and thank you for the honesty. Also thanks for the offer to contact you…….might regret that one day! Laugh

My circumstances almost made my mind up I’m afraid. Until July I was more than a 80hrs+ a week running a small food business and that just couldn’t continue or I would have been in the knackers yard. Have been trying this for some time and yes have battered a few banks along the way too but also most of that was down to not putting the hours in or dipping in and out of it, following this or that. I’m using the trading group as my main guide and my mindset has been changed dramatically by FTS and the podcasts so I do feel with the info I have and hopefully the right learning structure this time it’s for good. Also looking to do what I can for myself or learn what I can hence why I wanted to post on here. Every days a school day for me.

Onwards and upwards and again thanks for the input.

Avatar
Moderator
Members

Moderators
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
March 6, 2016
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
10
November 4, 2019 - 7:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I’ll make Ian aware of this thread as if I know Ian, he will respond to cries for help from people who are serious about turning their life around.

Arthur

The following users say thank you to ArtTest for this useful post:

Baldwinsdad, Sammy
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
January 21, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
November 5, 2019 - 8:55 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

ArtTest said
I’ll make Ian aware of this thread as if I know Ian, he will respond to cries for help from people who are serious about turning their life around.

Arthur

  

Dylan – where you based – let me know see if we can meet up – my advice genuinely would be stop for a minute – as has been said by the Lord etc started doing too much and the pressure of doing this FT particularly with the baby etc on way 

Ian

Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 21
Member Since:
March 19, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
November 5, 2019 - 10:25 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Baldwinsdad said
Appreciate that Lord D and thank you for the honesty. Also thanks for the offer to contact you…….might regret that one day! Laugh

My circumstances almost made my mind up I’m afraid. Until July I was more than a 80hrs+ a week running a small food business and that just couldn’t continue or I would have been in the knackers yard. Have been trying this for some time and yes have battered a few banks along the way too but also most of that was down to not putting the hours in or dipping in and out of it, following this or that. I’m using the trading group as my main guide and my mindset has been changed dramatically by FTS and the podcasts so I do feel with the info I have and hopefully the right learning structure this time it’s for good. Also looking to do what I can for myself or learn what I can hence why I wanted to post on here. Every days a school day for me.

Onwards and upwards and again thanks for the input.

  

Hi Dylan

I have sent you a dm, just a few suggestions that might help with he pressure.

Jamie

Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
July 12, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
November 7, 2019 - 2:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
+5
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Hi Baldwinsdad.

Im not full-time yet but likely will be soon due to health issues (prob exacerbated by running an SME for the last 25 years!). I have been betting horses successfully for about 5 years but I’m working gradually to going full-time having spent the last 12 months building a sold platform of football systems in order to spread my risk. However, I’m not putting a fixed date on it as i don’t want to give myself an artificial deadline.

Lessons i have learnt thus far either from my own bitter experience or from listening to Ian’s podcasts/seminar etc. In between the Spurs stuff he talks a lot of sense about mindset and taking a long term approach.

1. I learnt quickly that less is more – too many systems mean too much time spent placing bets, recording bets and the requirement for too large a bankroll to enable me to cover all the systems and plays i wanted to. Concentrate on the most solid systems you have and look carefully at drawdown. Murphy’s Law dictates that a losing run often occurs when you start following a system so minimising drawdowns is crucial imho.

2. Stick to what you know and understand. If you don’t understand horse racing stay well away, it can be a minefield for the novice. I stumbled into US sports at one time tempted by what seemed simple enough systems on well known blogs but betting on US sports really is a grind and a long term game and you need to know the rules as they offen differ within the same sport depending on what region of the US is involved (MLB for example ). I now enjoy watching but don’t place any money.

3. If you are basing your betting on systems, place those bets and then walk away from the screen. Again I think Ian said something like come back on Monday and see how the weekend’s bets went.You will only get tempted into placing a few bets based on gut feel or peer pressure. Don’t listen to so-called experts on twitter, blogs or the bloke in the pub who knows someone with a horse etc. It is so easy to bet away the money your systems have accrued when you are bored or feeling under pressure to get a return that day. Late night betting on the Brazilian Serie B or the Venezuelan Premier league is the work of the devil! In addition staring at a Betfair screen all day is NOT good for anyone’s health. Get out, enjoy the fresh air, your family, your friends.

4. Following on from 3, record every bet you place so you can see what you are doing right and wrong and don’t worry about results each day, week or month. Ian judges his football systems over a few years like an ISA he says and that has helped my approach and my state of mind re betting no end. Having bet on horses for so many years Im used to months of treading water then hitting a golden run and you have to be patient and wait for it to come. A couple of my FTS systems started with several losses but just a couple of months later are in profit and showing a decent ROI/ROC.

Sorry if I have rattled on a bit, I’m on sick leave today after hospital treatment and cannot face daytime TV!

Good luck to you mate, hope it all works out for you. Great to see so many FTS members willing to help.

Jonnyhammer

The following users say thank you to jonnyhammer for this useful post:

Steve, Neil, Baldwinsdad, jamiep, TimR, hibscowboy
Avatar
Moderator
Members

Moderators
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
March 6, 2016
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
14
November 7, 2019 - 3:56 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
+1
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

and good luck to you JonnyHammer, hope your health issues improve soon.

Arthur

The following users say thank you to ArtTest for this useful post:

jonnyhammer
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
January 27, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
November 7, 2019 - 4:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Baldwinsdad said
Hello all fellow traders!

Cards on the table I feel I need some help, and I think we all know this can be a lonely game at times so hoping the community here might bring some answers or pointers.

I’m not making any money since committing myself to this Full time in Aug this year. So why am I not in the green yet? Well I don’t quite know. My discipline is where I think it needs to be I stick rigidly to what selections are put in front of me, nothing else. So you know I don’t expect to win all the time, I don’t think this is an easy job. I now hate the Betfair screen. It’s a boring thing to sit and do all day but I also know if you see where the market is going to move you can make a lot of money, after all it’s why we are all here.

This is what I’m doing

Trading group. Not worried about this, it is out of my direct control and I know long term this is as good and safe as it gets. Nothing to see here.

Ultimate. I have 5 systems in this again work at them Tuesday and Friday take what it throws up and over all this is all good.

FDD……and so it begins. This is in my control and is an amazing tool but I just feel I could be getting more from it. I feel like I have a Ferarri and can’t drive the thing! I have been using it to find goals. Thing is I can’t find them Embarassed It has lost me more than a few pounds. I need to find an angle or edge for second half goals as I feel this is where I can sit and trade things out. Any help here would be much appreciated!! I do feel one of the problems is not having all the back data to find the right edge. I have bought some extra data but on top of losing money and being part of all of these services it hurts financially, if you are unsure of what it is you are looking for and don’t even know how to find it. See told you I was lost.

RTS Just sacked me in the first month. I know, I know you need to stick with it but I don’t understand horses and know I have just taken too much on so won’t be continuing with that going forward. Not because it’s not good, but because I don’t understand it and with the mess I’m in just now feel it’s far too much at one time. I will return to it one day.

I have a good bank. I’m managing it as per FTS advice and that’s great and really helps, only thing is it’s now more than 20% down. With a very pregnant wife (who is brilliant and very understanding so far) and all the usual bills etc, I’m starting to doubt myself and I don’t think thats a good thing when trading. I want to learn. I know this can be done, I used to work next to Traders at a very large UK bookmakers and seen how much they made on the side by Betfair trading so know I can do this. Any advice, any help, any pointers (not the samaritans) would be great and much appreciated.

As Kermit says “it’s not easy being green”

Cheers Dylan Confused

  

Hi Dylan, thank you for starting this thread and a very interesting read. Really resonates with me, as I too am really struggling with this and finding it a real battle to get ahead. I too have been doing it full time since August (although my good lady is hopefully not pregnant like yours, as she is 48 and I am 52 !) and like you I owned a business that was taking away my life and health. Had to walk away and now looking for other income streams. I feel just as you said, we have all the tools, but not sure how to best use them. It is all quite overwhelming to start with I find, Ultimate, Poisson, FDD etc. It started ok but had huge losses lately, my confidence is shot to pieces and really do not know how to proceed with this. Of course it has only been 4 months or so and this needs to be judged over years, but again, as you say, I don’t have the luxury of years to do this as the bank will not last forever.

It is deeply frustrating and a tad embarrassing for me to reach out for some advice and help, as you start to feel you are the only one struggling. Lonely old place that is. I have done nothing else but work my way through all the data, watching videos, podcasts, creating macros, following social media etc etc for last 4 months solid, 6-8 hours a day and still losing money. My process and staking are just all over the place and need to know how to best organise myself. Lumping on LTD Beginner is in fact what is saving me from being 40% down on my bank but I cannot have all my eggs in one basket, as a few big losses there could see me really up against it. I shall watch your journey with interest Dylan and shall be happy to pass on anything to you that I learn on this journey. Need to keep working hard to turn this around and use these excellent tools to (hopefully) move onwards and upwards.

Best Wishes

Steve

The following users say thank you to Steve for this useful post:

Baldwinsdad
Avatar
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
July 12, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
November 7, 2019 - 4:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

No one ever should be embarrassed asking for help. Even Dio, who has been full time for years, says he is still learning. Nature of the game mate. Best of luck.

The following users say thank you to jonnyhammer for this useful post:

ArtTest
Avatar
Moderator
Members

Moderators
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
March 6, 2016
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
17
November 7, 2019 - 4:47 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

You are always learning and that includes Ian.

You can always drop Ian an email or PM him on here to get advice on what to do next.

Arthur

The following users say thank you to ArtTest for this useful post:

Steve
Avatar
Poole, Dorset
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 6
Member Since:
January 16, 2017
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
18
November 7, 2019 - 4:51 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

It’s good that you guys are asking for help and hopefully we can all get you on the right track.

I’m amazed that you have both jumped in at the deep end and are trying to do this full time. My advice would be to take a step back and, as there is so much to take in, learn what is right for you in the first year. Reduce stakes to comfortable levels so losses don’t hurt so much and have plenty of points to play with. You will eventually realise what suits you and can gradually increase stakes in those areas. The thing is it’s a slow burner of gradual bank building and not a get rich quick scheme. 

Success is achievable but there are ups and downs in this game. I personally had a poor August, recovered it all and a bit in September, October was a top month but the beginning of November has been a bloodbath. However, I have confidence in my systems and a bank in place to cover large down turns.  

If possible, I would recommend getting a job to remove the pressure of ‘having to win to pay the bills’.   

Good luck 

Mark

The following users say thank you to Mark for this useful post:

ArtTest
Avatar
Norfolk, UK
Beginner
Members
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
September 11, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
November 11, 2019 - 6:28 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0
sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Hello

I’m just starting my journey, tested a few systems Sep/Oct, settled on a few methods and started with a larger bank 1st Nov.

I have purchased BetAngel to trade with, makes horses much faster and easier, looking now at setting up automated systems on it.

I was advised by Ian not to purchase FDD yet and to take things slowly, gradually adding in systems over time.

If you ask Ian he did only LTD for 2-3 years before adding to it.

I think the message I’m trying to get across is, less is more, focus on quality trades, focus on less losses.

Knowing when to trade is great, knowing when not to is better.

I’ll also add I’m not full time so have no pressure on me but hope to be in 3-5 years. Add me on twitter same handle as here, always happy to chat.

The following users say thank you to @capitalchrisw for this useful post:

Baldwinsdad
Forum Timezone: Europe/London
Most Users Ever Online: 92
Currently Online: ArtTest, Mark, bladesmanstan, Neil, Beeble
4
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Forum Stats:
Groups: 4
Forums: 22
Topics: 99
Posts: 509

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 2
Members: 3587
Moderators: 1
Admins: 2
Administrators: Ian, Geeky Boy
Moderators: ArtTest